Unleashing Creativity with AI: Experiential Marketing and Dreamforce 2024

In this episode of The Xcast, hosts Evan Strange and Michelle Bartosiewicz dive into the intersection of artificial intelligence (AI) and experiential marketing. Joined by special guest Katie Snider, VP Executive Creative Director at Salesforce, the trio explores how AI is transforming creativity and marketing, from unlocking new efficiencies to enhancing the attendee experience at events like Dreamforce. They discuss how AI is augmenting, rather than replacing, human creativity, and share practical ways brands can use AI intentionally to drive personalization, engagement, and real-time feedback.

Key Takeaways:

1. AI as a Creativity Tool: AI enhances human creativity by taking on mundane tasks, allowing creatives to focus on ideation and storytelling. It functions as a "co-pilot," boosting efficiency without replacing the human touch.
2. Fear vs. Opportunity: While many fear AI will replace jobs, particularly in creative fields, the panelists agree that AI augments creativity by offering new tools for rapid prototyping, ideation, and real-time audience engagement.
3. Personalization & Real-Time Insights: AI's power in experiential marketing lies in its ability to personalize experiences at scale, such as tailoring event content or providing real-time audience feedback to enhance engagement.
4. Intentional Use of AI: AI should be used with purpose, not just because it’s a trending technology. Brands should align their AI strategies with business goals, ensuring that it delivers value and enhances the user experience.
5. Dreamforce Preview: Katie Snider offers a sneak peek into the AI-driven innovations planned for Dreamforce, Salesforce’s annual event, highlighting how AI will create immersive and personalized experiences for attendees.

Transcript

Evan Strange: 

Hello, folks. Welcome to InVision's podcast, the Xcast, where we help brands navigate audience engagement in times of change. Today, we are diving into the wild world of where artificial intelligence meets experiential marketing and creativity. We will also be having a quick conversation today with Katie Snider, who is the VP executive creative director at Salesforce, who's going to chat with us about AI, creativity, and little sneak peek of Dreamforce. And as always, I am not doing this alone today. Joining me is my brilliant and endlessly creative friend, Michelle Bartosiewicz. She's a creative director with a knack for turning big ideas into unforgettable experiences. Michelle, are you ready to talk about what happens when AI gets a seat at the creative table? 

Michelle Bartosiewicz: 

Oh, I am so ready. 

Evan Strange: 

So let's do it. So before we get started, just let me go through a few pieces of data that I think are interesting from a recent report we put together at InVision. Number one, we're seeing organizations, agencies really start to increase their internal investment in AI. 40% of companies say that they are increasing their investment because of these advances in generative tools like ChatGPT and the impact that it can have on the work that agencies do. What we're also seeing is a rise in usage across the workforce. 79% of people to one survey said that they had some exposure to AI tools with 22% saying that they use it regularly in their work, and that number continues to grow today. And then finally, the industries that we see with the potential for the most ROI from leveraging AI is sales and marketing. And we think most of that is due to the ability to personalize communications and experiences. So a lot to think about today. But Michelle, with all that in mind, can I ask you a couple questions? 

Michelle Bartosiewicz: 

Yes, you may. 

Evan Strange: 

First up is AI. Do you see it as something that you can truly use to unlock creativity and take our experiences to the next level? 

Michelle Bartosiewicz: 

Honestly, if you asked me this question a year ago, I might've had a different answer. But now that I've learned more about it and have actually been using AI tools in my work every day, I have come to the opinion that AI really is jet fuel for creativity. It allows us to do a lot more in less time it's efficiency. With a capital E. For example, I'm able to hand off all of the mundane BS that we have to do to do our jobs. Like a lot of the research transcriptions, reading huge documents and summarizing them, I can hand that off to an AI helper and I reserve my brain power for ideating and doing the creative work. So it's an amazing tool. I used to be terrified AI was coming for me and it was going to take my job, but I don't see that anymore. 

Evan Strange: 

I think that takes me to my next question, right? There is a lot of fear. We see it in the data in the surveys that with the rise in generative AI, so is the potential for jobs being replaced, but specifically as it pertains to creativity, do you think AI will actually replace human creativity or is it just something that will augment it? 

Michelle Bartosiewicz: 

I think it will augment it. I've had some interesting conversations with other creative people and say 20 years ago or whenever CGI came into the picture, people were really afraid like, "How are we going to know what's real, what's not real? And is this going to come and take away jobs of people who have really specialized skills like artists, actors, and writers?" And the fact is that the way it works, when I put in a prompt into a ChatGPT and it comes back with something, it's never going to have the emotional nuances that a human being brings to it. Same with an artist or photographer. We can make things better, refine them, polish them, and enhance them with AI. But the soul is something that's essential to creativity being successful, and that's only something a human being can do. So I think we're safe, folks. 

Evan Strange: 

I love that. I love that it can never really replace that emotion. It's the thing that makes us most human. I think it's the thing that makes our marketing the most impactful. And then I would also add from a strategy perspective, you can't replace the curiosity of humans- 

Michelle Bartosiewicz: 

Exactly. 

Evan Strange: 

-strategy and creative. And I think that curiosity, that ability to write with emotions and impact is something that is at least now a long way from being available for people to use. But I think it [inaudible 00:05:30] was what makes us human is also what makes our work so great. 

Michelle Bartosiewicz: 

Exactly. 

Evan Strange: 

So let me ask you this. There are so many tools out there, so many ways you can use AI. How are you using it in the work that you do? You mentioned a co-pilot or an assistant, but how else do you see your team using AI in the creative work that they do? 

Michelle Bartosiewicz: 

We all use the AI butlers like Alexa, Siri, Hey Google, there's a new one being born every day. There are some new apps out there. One of them is called Pi, P-I. And it's a way that I this to sort of kickstart ideation and I could say, "Hey, Pi, what bands performed in music festivals in 2024 if I'm trying to come up with a hot new act or performer for entertainment for an event?" I can get all of that in 30 seconds versus me going down a rabbit hole on the internet or on TikTok where I'm lost for days and looking at cat videos after three hours. So it saves a lot of time and brain power, like I said earlier. It does make for more efficient ways of working, but also some of the other open source AI tools like Midjourney and DALL-E. And DALL-E, not like Dolly Parton or even Salvador Dali, but D-A-L-L-E has given our art directors an incredible format for creating things that were impossible. 

You could never do things so beautifully, so artistically with Shutterstock. Not to trash Shutterstock, they are a great tool as well. But if you wanted to have a cat surfing in New York City down 5th Avenue with a champagne, you could do that with these tools. You could be as fantastic or as weird as you want. You could do it in a style. You could say, "I want this in the style of Norman Rockwell or Andy Warhol," and it will create it for you in seconds. Whereas to put it together in a more traditional way would take days, multiple people, dollars. It's just so quick to reality that it's accelerating our creativity and what we can do for our clients, and it's a circus of opportunities. It's fantastic. 

Evan Strange: 

Beautiful. In great segue in talking about our clients, I'd love to do this. I'd love to reframe the conversation in terms of the lens of our clients and then the work that we do. For those listening in experiential marketing, do you have any tips on how they can integrate AI into an experience intentionally and at a tactical level? What are some of your favorite ideas? 

Michelle Bartosiewicz: 

All right. So in events and experiences, obviously the ability to personalize communications is huge, that it makes a registration experience that much more fluid. It makes people feel special when they come to an event like, "Oh, you know my name, you know what track I should be on." It becomes something that makes the user experience and how you associate the user experience with a brand that much better. One of the things I think that we internally are really excited about is the ability at some point, and it may even may be able to do it now, but is using AI and data in real time to measure the engagement of an audience. Let's take the temperature, are people bored? Are they on their phones? In real time, we get that information. How do we adjust the experience so that we can get everybody back on board? 

That's one of the things, just moods, being more proactive with our audiences, being more personal with our audiences. All of that is made possible with AI and data and those insights that we get from it. And being able to do it now in the moment versus do an audit two weeks after an event and say, "Oh, well next time maybe we could try this." We might be able to address things in real time and make it a better experience right now. 

Evan Strange: 

That's great. I think if you'll let me, if you'll indulge me, I'll give one of my tips, and I think that is simply to be intentional. We see in events and in marketing in general, people just throwing AI at something because it's a hot topic without really thinking about the benefit that it could provide. You talked about all of those benefits of personalization, help keeping us nimble, delivering value. I think if as an industry, we as marketers are just more intentional with how we use AI, have a strategy foundation, there's a plug for strategy at InVision, I think that would go a long way. And then my final tip, it's something that I've always just been passionate about, we work with a lot of tech companies. 

We go to a lot of tech focused events. If you're a tech company and you have some sort of AI technology or AI adjacent technology, try to find a way to take that technology and actually build an AI integration or a foundation that AI can run on to improve the experience using your own tech to show attendees the benefits of those products in real time and in real life. That's something that I would love to see and I know everybody's trying to tackle it and we'll get there. 

Michelle Bartosiewicz: 

Yeah. And I think you bring up a good point about intentionality and AI is this year's biggest buzzword. Everybody wants in. It's changing the world as we speak. AI is changing the way we work. It's really empowering us with tools that none of us had before. And it's going to take a lot to ensure that people are using AI ethically. But that's an entirely different conversation, Evan, and maybe another topic for another podcast. But don't be afraid, let's use it with intention and use it thoughtfully. 

Evan Strange: 

I love that. All right. Should we bring a guest in? 

Michelle Bartosiewicz: 

Yeah, we love guests. 

Evan Strange: 

All right, so our guest today is Katie Snider. She is the VP executive creative director of product and industry marketing at Salesforce, and also my new neighbor. And she is here today to talk with us about all things creative in strategy and artificial intelligence and experiential and maybe a little bit about Dreamforce if she'll indulge me. Katie, welcome. 

Katie Snider: 

Hey, neighbor. Good to see you. 

Evan Strange: 

Hey, thanks for joining us. Before we dig in, tell everybody a little bit about you and what you do at Salesforce. 

Katie Snider: 

Well, I feel like I've got one of the dream jobs for creative and tech. I get the pleasure of working with our product and industry creative groups. And so what that means is I've got a creative director and team that are supporting each of the 10 major product in industry areas at Salesforce. It's swinging software for, which is really fun because we get to see all the end-to-end go-to-market creative from experiences to campaigns to the brand integrity and product alignment and web experience, anything external facing is what our teams touch. 

Evan Strange: 

Everybody, especially those of us in experiential, love Dreamforce. And I know you see both of the campaign side and events and experiences. As an event that so many people look forward to every single year, how do you continue to raise the bar creatively each year so things feel new and different, but equally as magical as the years prior? 

Katie Snider: 

We always joke every year like, "What are we going to do that will be better than the year past?" Because it feels like it's hard to top ourselves year over year, but somehow I think we find a creative way in to try and be as comparable or hopefully better than the year past. But as you know, Dreamforce is our Super Bowl as it relates to events, and I think really defining a theme is really critical to our success, but also really focusing on the customer. We always say we're a customer company, and so if we are making decisions that are not circling around the customer, then we're doing it wrong. So we try to be really intentional about creating those moments that are aligned to the core values for Dreamforce. 

So we have core values that we try and check off for every single thing we do for Dreamforce, it's stuff like learning, having fun, customer success, trust, giving back, and then if we're building or making a decision for Dreamforce that doesn't hit one of those boxes, then we're missing the mark and need to reassess. So that's how we think about Dreamforce of no surprise this year will be AI filled. So we're doing a world expo fair all around AI, and so I'm very excited about all of the possibilities for Dreamforce this year. I'll try and give you some teasers, but also don't want to give too much away. 

Evan Strange: 

Give us a couple nuggets throughout this call if you will. You brought up being customer-centric. So obviously I'm a strategist, so I love digging into customer and audience insights. So this year is obviously changing. It's a slight departure or evolution from the creative last year. Was there some sort of a key insight or something you heard from your audiences on site that drove some of the decision-making or the decision-making that's in progress for this year? 

Katie Snider: 

Yeah, I mean, last year our theme was AI wonderland and it was our first introduction into how we're thinking about AI and all of that work. I keep joking, I was on parental leave, so I didn't work at Salesforce last year for Dreamforce, so I didn't get to have a lot of fun like everybody else jamming on it. But I do work at Salesforce this year, and so we're thinking all about taking the surveys that are from our attendees, looking at our net promoter score, looking at all of those feedback forms, and we have a long intensive process of dissecting those data points, putting them into categories, seeing where the biggest kind of conversation points are happening. And then we put those into informing how we're going to budget, how we're going to map investment of time and resourcing. And then we build the brief based off of those pieces of info. 

We do one master brief for the event, and then we strategically align different motions or levers that we want attendees to experience at Dreamforce, and we build briefs for each of those areas. So we have lodges that are meant to be persona-based, and really more birds of a feather and align folks to where they're going to find their persona on campus and get contents and learning and product demos and experiential things all related to their persona. We've got content sessions that are very bespoke specific to those personas. We have our campground, which is a super focused product demo suite where we talk about our whole customer 360 and how our products work together. 

We have Howard Street where it's just very immersive and focuses on giving back and leans in on our event theme. So TL;DR, we have briefs one mega brief, and then we have sub briefs for all of the main touch points within the campus. And we have teams that are kind of mood boarding, setting the tone in addition to the strategy on the front end to make sure that our vendors, agencies, and the whole internal teams are kind of briefed and set expectations on what we need to deliver in the caliber of intention for that space. 

Evan Strange: 

That's awesome. And how long is the typical planning process for Dreamforce? When do you start ideation? 

Katie Snider: 

All year long, and I'm not kidding. I mean truly the minute the Dreamforce ends, we have really thoughtful event strategy where we do world tours that go all year round. Typically, we have one in December that's kind of the kickoff from Dreamforce where take the content from Dreamforce, put it into the format for world tour, and then we calibrate and tweak it and get focus group feedback after every tour. So we're essentially honing and tweaking that messaging and evolving it all year round until it comes back around to Dreamforce again. 

The other area where we're able to really do a lot of testing and innovation, trial and error, opportunities is we have proprietary events by persona. So TrailheaDX, Connections, Tableau Conference are all really specific to a product suite that we serve and a persona that we serve, and it creates kind of a testing ground for a paid event structure for us to try new things in our campground or in the keynote or in a specific area, a welcome moment, how we're doing personalization so that if it works and it's really effective, we can scale it and bring it to Dreamforce. So that really helps us too. So when I talk about seriously kicking off Dreamforce, yes, all of those events kind of tie into it, but we start the brief process. I mean probably January, February, and then we just did all the kickoffs for all of the teams in May. 

Evan Strange: 

That's great. And it also sounds like you have a constant feedback loop throughout the year to make sure that you have the pulse of the attendees, which is probably part of the reason people love Dreamforce so much because you're able to personalize it based on what you're hearing. 

Katie Snider: 

Yeah, I think it's one of the things we do really well. It can make our workflow a little tumultuous, right? Because we're constantly iterating, but it's all in the name of doing what's best for our customer, which I think is the right move. 

Evan Strange: 

So let's talk a little bit about AI, everybody's favorite topic. As you mentioned for your theme this year, but also in general, AI is a huge part of Salesforce's positioning and product moving forward. How do you tell the story of AI such a heady topic in a concise way and in a creative way at Dreamforce and beyond to so many different persona types so that it is digestible and understandable? 

Katie Snider: 

It's no small thing. It's like AI is going to be in the DNA of, I would say, every company, but for sure every tech company in the next several years. It's like if you're not on the AI train, you're missing out. So I think we can expect everyone will be an AI company if not today and a couple years from now. And so what that's meant for us is we're really thinking about just staying true to our core. And I feel like I'm going to talk about customer success a million times in this conversation, but we always define ourselves as a relationship-oriented company and a customer company. And so how we've thought about AI is not trying to veer towards what's the trend, what's the latest thing, what is everyone doing that's "AI", but what can we do and use AI as a vehicle to achieve ultimate customer success or ultimate relationship strength and B2B? 

And so that's how we've been thinking about AI. As we think about personas, I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head. The way that we're delivering the message the most effectively is by use cases. For me, and I'm sure a lot of people feel this way, AI, there's so much we don't know what we don't know yet. There's so much that the learning models and the data sets will inform how we'll use it in years to come or months to come. So the best way that we're finding is to get very specific on industry or product use cases and do as many cuts of them as possible so that folks understand how it will benefit them and how it will add to further personalization, further focus and attention and productivity in the areas they want to focus on, and not the mundane, menial, labor-oriented tasks that maybe they don't love today. 

Evan Strange: 

Let's dig into that a little bit. We see a lot of people, especially in experiential, just throw AI on stage or at a problem because they feel like they have to versus using it intentionally. How are you using it across your teams in an intentional way? And also how are you using AI in the attendee experience at an event like Dreamforce? 

Katie Snider: 

Hard questions. I'm going to talk about AI and creative first because I think, like I said earlier, AI will be a cornerstone of every creative decision that we make in years to come. And so now my teams are using it best for rapid ideation or prototyping, mood boards, first drafts of a manifesto, riffing on synonyms or different variations of how we might talk about something, using it almost like a brainstorming companion has been the way that we're weaving it into the creative process. So the amazing things that I've seen my team do with pushing storyboards, with pushing copywriting ideation, with pushing simplification of a business problem with all sorts of things is just, I mean, it's honestly amazing. Even looking at the scale and efficiency of some of the things that Figma's doing right now with being able to build out multi-size really effectively. 

Our teams have been demoing for one another, "Oh, I built this ad set of hundred ads in 30 minutes," which a couple of years ago, we would all laugh at that, right? There's no way that's possible. And now with AI, it's very much possible. So it's turning things that maybe would take weeks, months longer on like SLA deliveries into minutes and hours and weeks. And that's a huge game changer for teams that are having to think about cost efficiency and savings and how they're producing work and the quality and caliber of that work. So those are some of the ways that it's benefiting just the creative process. How we're using AI at events, we still have work to do. I think we all have a vision for what it can and should look like, but have we created best in class like best practices? I think we're still progressing towards that. 

The biggest place I think from a user experience perspective is personalization. Thinking about signage that as someone walks through a certain entry point and has their mag and bag, there's a sign that says like, "Hey, Evan, so glad you're at Dreamforce," or "Evan, your session is this way." So thinking about wayfinding, thinking about directional, thinking about immersion of what you're needing. I think also thinking about in real time approaches to agenda builder. So we already have been thinking about having attendees pre-tag things they want to attend, then giving them in-line recommendations accordingly. But what if it could be more real-time, like, "Oh, I saw you just tagged into this session, these two more would be great follow-ups and they're starting right now," or "They're starting in 30 minutes." So we're doing a little testing in some of that. I think we will continue to refine and perfect over time the opportunity to just give people the info that they want when they want it. 

Even Connections, this past year we had kind of a in-app, you scan your badge and then based on the information you had provided when you registered, we pre-populate an agenda that is based for you, and then you can green-light check if those things are in fact what you want to do, you can plug and play other things accordingly, lock it, and then it's already loaded and you're already pre-registered for all that content. So those are some of the ways that we're trying to use the data sets and data plus AI to help make the experience better. I don't want to reveal too much about how we're talking about our specific kind of Copilot or prompt builder and how we're going to use that, but what I will say is that we're looking for opportunities to be really hands-on with the product, really immersive with the product for people to have that experience at Dreamforce, then I'm pretty excited about that. 

Evan Strange: 

That's great. I think we as experiential marketers, us at InVision, are really excited to see this next step in how we're leveraging AI onsite. I think AI is not new, it's been around for years. Generative AI is the thing that is unlocking this productivity and efficiency and personalization at scale, which is amazing to see. And I think over the past year as we're seeing this move to using it more intentionally, so I'm excited to see companies like Salesforce doing it in the right way. Have we cracked the code yet? Not quite, but I think it happens in the next couple of years, and I'm excited to see it. 

Katie Snider: 

Yeah, I mean, I think we're going to see the bar continually be raised, but as it moves to multi-mode and we're thinking about AI across video and scripting and writing prompts and vocal audio prompts and all of those things the more interesting the work can be. And it's just the start, just the beginning of it. 

Michelle Bartosiewicz: 

That's really interesting, Katie. I'd never thought about it like that. 

Evan Strange: 

All right. Switching gears a little bit. I want to talk about the value of doing nothing in creative and strategy, but just thinking and being and thinking about solutions to problems, having time to just sit and think and be with a challenge as it pertains to creative and strategy. Do you have time and make time for your teams to do that? And how valuable do you think it is in the creative process to just be? 

Katie Snider: 

It is so valuable. I'm smiling because I think we have no shortage of jobs to be done in our world. And so I think that can make it really challenging for creatives to deliver on their tasks and conceptual achievements. And we know as creatives and strategists, you can't just turn it on. It's not on 24/7. You'll have that moment of inspiration and then you need that moment of sitting back and having space too. You didn't ask me this, but as it relates to even work from office or working from home, I'm a very big proponent of creatives need to work where they're most inspired. And so we've been trying to do more of a hybrid motion at Salesforce, but I firmly believe that some folks really need to be around a lot of people. Some people want to go to an art museum, some people want to sit in a hole in their house by themselves and just be, and every person's a little different. 

And so how we're creating space for that is really important to me that folks are making their own schedules. They're looking at their work weeks, months, quarters out so that we can plan for that saturated creative brainstorming space. That goes into we do a lot of our strategy and inline planning at an annual and then quarterly level so that we aren't getting requests for things. I mean, we do get ad hoc things, of course, but we know a month before the quarter starts, everything that's going to come on our plate for the most part. And then we can't chart plan that so that creatives have true SLAs to think about all of the work, have a true sprint for concepting before execution, before pitch, before all of that. So we try our best. Do we always get it right? Not always, but we try to leave space. And I do think it's really important. 

Evan Strange: 

I mean, obviously in an agency and in-house, they're slightly different, but we obviously work with people that are outside of creative and in strategy and are more focused on hours and timelines. And not that we don't focus on that as well, because I feel like we're always delivering on something, right? Hopefully on time, always on time. How do you advocate for that time of creativity to just be and think and ponder in a world where we know that every dollar has to be accounted for? 

Katie Snider: 

Yeah. In-house does have its own exciting things and challenges. And one of the things I always tell my teams, we are roommates with our clients because they're hanging out right next door. And that means that the relationship looks a little bit different than when you're in an agency. I have found the trick in-house is to try to let partners in on the secret, let them in on how the magic happens and kick them out when we need to, and have the creatives really be creative, but bring them along too, so they're invested and also they understand what good, better, best looks like. Okay, well, this is what I can output if you give me one week, this is what I can output if you give me four weeks and seeing that comparison. 

So a lot of my job is blocking, tackling, protecting of time and resources and educating of what are the differences in creative excellence and delivery, and then how the sausage is made too. Like, "Hey, you see brief and then pitch, but this, this, this, this, this, this, this all happen within those two time constraints that equate to longer SLAs than you think." And so that's my job is to make sure I'm protecting the teams and giving them the space to do what they need. 

Michelle Bartosiewicz: 

So Katie, we've had a really interesting conversation today. And to wrap things up, I just want to ask you one final question. Do you think AI enhances or competes with the creative process? 

Katie Snider: 

I think it's going to enhance because ultimately AI doesn't have a point of view. They don't have an idea that they're building and growing. You still need a creative to deliver that conceptual superpower. They're just going to output what we ask of them. They need us, they need that human element. And so I'm going to date myself, but I am a graphic designer, art director by trade. And when I first learned my craft, I was literally cutting out letters and hand kerning with pieces of paper. And then we then later learned, oh, then there's Illustrator, then there's the whole Adobe Suite and Photoshop. And over time, technology has helped us to be more efficient, to be stronger, better, smarter, faster creatives. But it hasn't changed our point of view and us as artists and makers, it's just made it a hell of a lot easier to do so. 

Am I so thankful I don't have to cut out paper letters anymore? Hell yeah. I don't want to do that. Nobody does, right? So I think AI is this next wave of innovation for us that is a tool that will help us to prototype quicker, scale faster, build more image upgrading and optimizing for low res to high res, do 3D prototyping. I think it's going to give more access to makers. Will it change the space? For sure. But I think you'll still see the need for creatives to give that point of view, and I think it'll make us better. 

Evan Strange: 

And there you have it. Katie, thanks for joining us. 

Katie Snider: 

Thanks. 

Evan Strange: 

All right. Well, Michelle, I'm sufficiently inspired. What do you think? 

Michelle Bartosiewicz: 

My mind is blown and I'm excited to get on the AI train. I want to write it as far as we can see where it takes us. 

Evan Strange: 

Beautiful. All right. Well, just to take it home. So a few things that are sticking around in my mind. I think number one, it's a must use tool for productivity, for creativity. It frees up our time for thinking, which in talking with Katie and talking with you is so, so important. 

Michelle Bartosiewicz: 

Yeah. None of us have time. I mean, none of us have time anymore. So thank you AI for giving us time. 

Evan Strange: 

I think the second thing is the value that unlocks. This idea of value, and again, freeing us up keeps coming up, but also in the experiences and the events that we do, the value that we can provide to the attendee in those personalized messages and so much more. Just making their experience better, if you will. 

Michelle Bartosiewicz: 

Right. And when an attendee experience is better, that's value for the brand because people are going to associate that really lovely, thoughtful experience with your brand. And you can't put a price tag on that. That's invaluable. 

Evan Strange: 

It's a pleasure as always and thanks everybody for listening. 

Michelle Bartosiewicz: 

Yeah, thank you. See you next time or hear you next time. 

Evan Strange: 

We're keeping that in. Thanks everybody. We'll see you soon.